bioshockfandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:1958 New Year's Eve Riots
This article could use some more information about the "New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball" and the various evidence of the riot which Jack saw in Rapture. --Gardimuer 03:09, October 17, 2009 (UTC) Naming this Article You could assume Andrew Ryan addressing the city would be at midnight passing into 1959. The problem is that we don't know this for sure. He may have just been addressing the city at the time when most people were still awake, including children, so it may be earlier on in the night. But if he did address them at midnight, we should name this article "1959 New Year's Day Riots" Anyone else have any evidence to when exactly he addressed the city? ~''Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę' [[User talk:MegaScience|{ '''talk }]]'' 01:12, May 9, 2010 (UTC) :Anyone want to discuss? ~''Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę' [[User talk:MegaScience|{ '''talk }]]'' 04:47, May 14, 2010 (UTC) Tenenbaum at Kashmir? I just watched the New Year's Eve in Rapture - 1958-1959 vdeo and the narrator said: Boy theres a corner whit a bit of brains in it; Proffesor Julie Langford, doctor Steinman, doctor TENENBAUM and doctor Suchong I belive. theres a bunch of eggheads. But if I remember correctly Tenenbaum departured from public?. It seems odd that shes at the party after the recent events.Shacob (talk) 02:53, December 14, 2013 (UTC) What in-game asset states that date - I cant remember if she was still working when Ryan got control of Fontaine Futuristics and THEN left. Lets see, the one that i remeber was in Burial at Sea in the need to know theater about Brigid that she had resently disapered from public and as we know the dlc happends on the night of the fall and this: Tenenbaum soon after disappeared from the public eye, leaving her apartment in the Mercury Suites to take up residence in her sanctuary for Little Sisters. She then began working on a cure to reverse the 'ADAM Sickness', and produced a method of reverting Little Sisters. As the Rapture Civil War brewed, she continued rescuing Little Sisters to turn them human again." - in her wiki page but then again. in the Fall of Rapture games loading screen quotes it says; TENENBAUM VANISHES... Allegedly Renounces Little Sister Program - Mental Stability Questioned..." and this was unlocked at rank 15 wich is some time after the events at Kashmir Shacob (talk) 06:40, December 29, 2013 (UTC) ::That video is fan made, it shouldn't be taken seriously. ::Unownshipper (talk) 04:55, February 17, 2014 (UTC) New Year's Eve in Rapture - 1958-1959 Video? Why is this here if this was fan made? Its quite missleading. Shacob (talk) 23:18, February 15, 2014 (UTC) Its passable. Hardly a video. Kind of padded 8 minutes audio (music, Ok) til things happen.... Should have been City Council, not Ryan Industries making the Safety Announcement (and that was a bit quick immediately after whatever happened) . Didnt really hear the 'attack' after the bomb explosion - lots of shooting sound effects could be used from games these days. The Novel covers it a bit better. 12:50, February 16, 2014 (UTC) ::You can move the video here if you want. ::Unownshipper (talk) 04:55, February 17, 2014 (UTC) "Subject Delta and Eleanor" Were there that many bodies lying about Rapture at this early a time -- so many that there would be lots of Little Sisters out previously by themselves to be accosted and thus to REQUIRE a Big Daddy to protect them? And developing/deploying BDs took some time so the issue was already long developed and the LS crawling all over the place to BE imperilled for even before that... Wasnt the whole celebration significant because of Fontaines removal and some return to 'normality' ??? (It was not really previously emphasised : if Fontaine was murdering lots of people, causing a big body count, that many months previous.... no real mention of such) Also this is before the populace 'spliced' up to defend themselves in the Civil War -- not really a big issue yet was all the ADAM side effects. Were the terrorists (with or without Atlas) already heaping up Citizens bodies previous to New Years -- again to warrant any significant numbers of Little Sistere out collecting ?? (even better for one to already get trapped in 'Fontaines Department Store" ???) Where else might such bodies come from (and they would have to be Splicers for them to be 'gathered'. BS1 to BS2 ... already conflicting. Now with the DLC BaS stuff stuffing even more incohesive events together (cant wait to see what BAS2 throws into the confusion.) 12:35, February 16, 2014 (UTC) So Ryan knew Atlas was coming? So Ryan knew Atlas was coming? In Burial at Sea, Ryan is fully aware that Elizabeth is helping Atlas, and he knows that she has the particle to float the building back up to Rapture. So why didn't he warn the citizens? he sent down his security to the prison, and they would have seen the plans to attack the kashmir so why didnt Ryan have the party cancelled and have a securtiy lockdown initiated? It seems strange now that he made such a calm new years announcement moments before the countdown and the riots started. Also, wouldn't some people back up in the city actually SEE the housewares building floating back up and think 'oh sh*t, that's not supposed to be happening, I should warn someone about this'. 12:08, April 18, 2014 (UTC) Besides the problem of 'How do you reconnect a building without teams of divers working for days' (or fairly obvious 'How did they ever survive 'disconnected' from power/heat/air for months'), the place SHOULD have been monitored (the security cameras inside should go to someone in Ryan's security -- it IS supposed to be a prison), but then again the bizarre lack of any guards being there/imates having free run, it never being thoroughly searched makes it all way too wrong. They really didnt care about anything making sense or what contradictions they introduced, which probably with the closing down of the project makes sense to those not being a priority - just get it done and bail and go cash the checks. Riots? Do we actually know any other place that was effected by the riots besides the Kashmir, Ryan amusement and possibly Adonis? I am just wondering, because everyone in the games seems to refer the attack to just the Kashmir and not even mentioning other places? (besides Felix Molloy when he says: "asked me to figure out where '''to strike first' when we"). Is it just Nina Carnegie's audio diary, because I can't found anything else? Shacob (talk) 18:05, April 25, 2014 (UTC) - Arcadia - perhaps the curfew had something to do with the riots, 4 died in riots the day before the curfew? - Persephone unleashed? Possibly Stanley Poole flooding Dionysus Park (When Sofia Lamb left Persephone before the riots to retrieve Eleanor)? Fort Frolic closed down from the public during the riots? Burial at Sea showed almost all areas in Rapture continually being attacked/terrorized. Power went off in Ryan Amusements ... - When you see places being attacked at the end of Burial at Sea remember that thats two weeks after the attack on the kashmir. - Persephone was taken over by Lamb before the attack on Kashmir and Dionysus park was flooded after. Arcadia and Fort Frolic didn't close at the same day as the attack, society still excised after the attack, one incident shouldn't make a places in the city close directly after. Shacob (talk) 11:56, April 26, 2014 (UTC) We really arent given a date for when Sofia Lamb got control of Persephone. It may have been 'stealthed' for quite a while to avoid Ryan's notice. The warden was probably cooperating by then. You would think that Sinclair would have picked up on it, unless he was covering it up while trying to (unsuccessfully) regain control of the facility. Time and name? You know what i found a little odd, that Burial at Sea - Episode 1 & 2 plus the new years eve riots happened on the same day? There's two ways this would work: no.1 is that Episode 1 started early in the morning but that doesn't make sense to me because the New Years eve celebration appears to be on going at the time Elizabeth and Booker travels through Market Street and High Street. no 2. The Kashmir Restaurant was attacked in 1959. There's a lot of evidence to this: ''"Another New Year's, another night alone. I'm out, and you're stuck in Hephaestus, working." ~Diane MacClintock - New Year's Eve Alone. This indicates that the new year already started or that she was sadden about the fact that she was going to spend the new years "count down" alone. "And now that the park is all quiet... I can't sleep myself! I guess it's just you and me, Mr. Voice Recorder. You, me, and 1959. I wonder what the new year will -- ''What... what was that? Something's happened, the lights are going out. Kids, stay in your sleeping bags, it's going to be fine..."'' ~Nina Carnegie - You, Me, and 1959 This reviles that the Attack already started in 1959. I don't see Nina and the Children going to sleep before the new years started, the children would have wanted to stay up (this is the only time of the year children usually gets to stay up late) to celebrate. So my point is: should we change the name to "1959 New Year's Eve Riots" or just "New Year's Eve Riots"? Shacob (talk) 17:02, May 12, 2014 (UTC) It would be "1958 New Year's Eve Riots" or "1959 New Years Day Riots" - New Years celebration ''isn't '' exactly going on during Episode 1, it seems people are going about their day before the festivities begin as there are advertisements regarding the New Years ("Ring in the New Year at the Kashmir"), and given whether a player's playthrough lasts 2-3 hours for part 1 and about 4-5 hours for part 2 (give an take events like Booker/Comstock fainting and awakening or Elizabeth awakening to Atlas), could very well have gone into midnight in in-game time on New Years Eve 1959. Yes, the Kashmir was attacked on New Years eve and day, January 1st 1959, by her stating that, she is talking into the future, not living in it. People always make New Years toast and New Years speeches before the countdown. I guess it should have helped to hear the countdown in her background ambience. Again same with Nina, she's greating the new year, and I'm pretty sure they're a young class, most young kids don't stay up on New Year's mainly because they don't have the capacity to stay up. She said she couldn't sleep herself, meaning that she was waiting for the countdown to happen or counting down herself, therefor 1959 New Year's Eve Riots is a relevant title. Tricksteroffools (talk) 19:15, May 12, 2014 (UTC) The children were third grade (8-9 years old) so could probably stay up to see in the new year. See the audio tape Volunteer. - Perhaps the page should be called "New Years Celebration Riots" this would cover 1958 and 1959 as the celebrations do actually pass from Dec 31st 1958 through to Jan 1st 1959. - Well according to the book (still not canon, I know), the riots happend in 1959. Chapter 17, Kashmir Restaurant: "''Then the song stopped, simply cut off in midtune, and the countdown started, led by a giddy Sander Cohen: "Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one, Happy New Year!" Bill pulled Elaine close for the midnight kiss... That's when the explosion came."'' It does seem a bit more dramatic to do it just after the year changed then before. Shacob (talk) 00:43, August 16, 2014 (UTC) :I would REALLY prefer if we don't change the name. :1. We don't know for certain if the riots started before or after the clock struck midnight. While I can see it taking place on Jan. 1st, I can just as easily see it taking place on Dec. 31st. ::a. Diane says "''Another '''New Year's, another night alone''," not "another new year." She's referring to the holiday New Year's Eve (the period before and after midnight) not the actual start of the new year, so it's too vague. If she had indicated the latter, it'd be conclusive, but it's not. ::b. As for Nina, she sounds like she's recording in anticipation of the coming year. However, it's not clear that the power going out and disconnecting Ryan Amusements happened before, after, or at the exact same point as the bombing of the Kashmir. After all, how would the bombing of a restaurant in the Welcome Center effect the generators all the way over in Ryan Amusements? ::c. It's impossible to judge whether or not the children would've been awake. Picture a bunch of kids running around an amusement park with their friends for several hours. Would they really have the energy to stay up past their normal bed time? I personally remember despreately trying to stay awake for Y2K when I was around these kids age. Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, I dozed off as well. :2. We CERTAINLY don't know how long Booker DeWitt and Elizabeth were passed out after their shocking encounter with Sander Cohen or even Elizabeth in between BAS 1 & 2. You could make the case for an hour for both instances while I could argue for as little as 15 mins. :Let's say that BAS 1 & 2 take 3 hours each (though both could EASILY occur in less time). If that's the case, then within the game's narrative, the time frame could work for the riots starting before midnight. :Episode 1 starts with eveyone having a drink and being in high spirits. :This could be about 9 or 10 o'clock OR it could easily be cocktail hour, which traditionally starts between 4 & 6 (I wouldn't put it past Booker to be drunk off his ass this early in the day considering wheat the other citizens comment about him). With Rapture being so cut off from the sun, time works how you want it to. :Plus, Rapture has different holidays than we do. No Christmas, no Saint Patrick's Day, no Saint Valentine's Day, no 4th of July. New Year's Eve might be a really big deal in Rapture, maybe it's the BIG holiday (along with the city's founding day). My point is it's possible that people check out early from work and party the night away on New Year's. :3. Calling it the "1959 New Year's Eve Riots" makes it sound like we're rolling into the year 1960, not 1959. I don't see any need to change the name from what it already is. :Unownshipper (talk) 22:44, August 17, 2014 (UTC) :Good points, yeah lets keep it the way it is. :(ps. I do believe they celebrate Valentine's Day in Rapture) :Shacob (talk) 15:40, August 18, 2014 (UTC) ::Huh. Guess I missed that. Well, it's hardly a "Saint's Day" in the Catholic sense in America either now that I think about it. ::Unownshipper (talk) 22:51, August 20, 2014 (UTC)